Upgrading HDD Tutorial.

kiz · 29-06-2008

I didnt write this, although i hope it helps anyone planning on upgrading their PS3 to a bigger drive.

WARNING: Sony will not be held liable for any damage or loss of data when changing your HDD

Welcome to the Unofficial PS3 Hard Drive Upgrade Thread

I am putting this thread together because it would seem that there seems to be a lot of questions about replacing internal hard drives and trying to use external hard drives to back things up. This thread will continuously change when more information surfaces. This thread is a combination of information gathered from all over the web in one place.

Important Questions

Q: Does replacing your PS3 void your warranty?
A: Simple answer is NO. But if you try to modify or take it apart it then this could void your warranty

Q: Will I need to keep the old 60GB internal Hard Drive?
A: Yes you will need to keep the old one in case you have to send in your PS3 for Service and you will need to put the 60GB back into the PS3

Q: Do I need to be careful with the screws?
A: This is probably the hardest bit of the whole process - trying not to strip the screws. From what I have read and watched it would seem if you get the correct size screwdrvier and apply some pressure when you are unscrewing them then it should come out fine with out stripping them

HINTS

Before we start anything I must stress that you have your DATA backup, espically your game data so that you can transfer it. The Device has to be formated in FAT32

WHAT YOU WILL NEED

1 NOTEBOOK 2.5 INCH HDD SATA ANY SIZE (We recommend staying with the same RPM as the PS3’s original HDD, 5400RPM. You can upgrade to 7200RPM, of course, but we cannot promise that it will not have ill-effects on your machine.)
1 MINI PHILLIPS HEAD SCREWDRIVER
1 MINI FLATHEAD SCREWDRIVER
1 SOLID PLACE TO WORK
1 EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE or USB (FORMATED TO FAT32)

GOOD VIDEO RESOURCE

YouTube - Swap out your Hard Drive in your PS3

FIRST STEP- BACK UP

1. There are 2 ways to back up your data. Simple or Comprehensive

Simple

- GO to saved data utility under GAMES and press triangle and then select copy from the opitions and then select the destination
- Use the same for Music and Photos,etc
- However as Far as I know you can not save the actual game down this way eg PSN downloads

Comprehensive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJDYgQtkk5A

- Go to settings
- Select system settings
- Back up utility
- Back up

and then select the Destination. The device has to be formated in FAT32 to be recognised by the PS3. This way everything gets backed up including the PSN downloads ( I am not sure of things that are protected though eg WarHawk).

http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en...kuputility.html
STEP 2 - Removing the hard disk

Before I start this section and section 3 I would like to say that this is the work of ifmracin of the US playstation forums. He has been helping people on the USA forum out with many questions. My thanks goes out to him for creating the thread on the US playstation forums.

Anyways

1. Touch the power button on the system front for at least two seconds.The power indicator will turn solid red and the system will enter standby mode.

2. Turn off the system using the main power switch on the system rear.

3. Unplug the AC power cord and detach the other cables from
the system.

4. Remove the HDD bay cover on the system's left side. Use the space at the right edge of the HDD bay cover to pull it out from the system.If the cover is difficult to remove, gently insert asmall screwdriver in the space and pry the cover off. Be careful not to damage the system or the cover when using a screwdriver.

5. Free the hard disk from the system. This had 4 steps

i) Remove the blue screw with a crosshead screwdriver.

ii) Raise the metal handle

iii) Slide the hard disk to the right

iv) Use the metal handle to pull the hard disk out from the system.

STEP 3 - Replacing the Hard Disk

YouTube - PS3 HDD

1. Use a crosshead screwdriver to remove the screws (4 places).

IMPORTANT: These screws are very tight, be sure to find a screwdriver that fits very well, and take your time.

2. Remove the hard disk from the metal frame. Lift one end and slide the hard disk out to remove

3. Place the replacement hard disk on the PS3™ system hard disk's metal frame, and then attach using the screws (4 places).

IMPORTANT : Do not overtighten the screws.

4. Install the hard disk in the system. Fully insert the hard disk in the HDD bay, and then slide it to the left.

Attach the blue screw to lock the hard disk in place. Refer to the instructions for
"Removing the hard disk" in reverse order when installing.

5. Reattach the HDD bay cover.

6. Turn on the PS3™ system. Follow the on-screen instructions to perform initial setup.

STEP 4 - Restoring the back up DATA

Simple Restore ( if you did simple backup)

Just copy all the information back to where you copied it from

Comprehensive Restore (if you did Comprehensive Backup)

1. Once the PS3 has formatted your new HDD go to settings
2. Select System settings
3. Backup utility
4. Restore
Replacement hard disks

You can use hard disks of the following types with the PS3™ system:

Size 2.5 inch (internal type)*1 Interface format Serial ATA*2

*1 Proper operation is not guaranteed for all models.
*2 Parallel ATA is not supported.

2.5" form (generally refered to as a notebook drive)
Serial ATA interface, also shown as SATA
9.5mm Height

IMPORTANT: It is not recommended to sell or get rid of your factory hard drive. If you ever need to send it to Sony for repair, you are going to want to put the origional drive back in prior to sending it in.A good use for it is to get an external USB enclosure and convert it into a portable USB hard drive.

VIDEO RESOURCES

YouTube - Gamehelper: PS3 HDD Replacement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJDYgQtkk5A

YouTube - PS3 Backup and Restore in action

YouTube - PS3 Hard Drive Upgrade

YouTube - Swap out your Hard Drive in your PS3 (GOOD Resource)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAM0DN4k7L4 (ALSO good)

YouTube - **A Simple Guide On How To Upgrade Your Ps3's HDD**
RESOURCES

YouTube - PS3 Hard Drive Upgrade

http://www.cnet.com.au/games/ps3/0,2390357...39282375,00.htm

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstatio...thread.id=32840

Press Start: How to Upgrade Your PlayStation 3 Hard Drive - Features at GameSpot

Drives that Work

IMPORTANT
160GB HDD - Will give you appromatiley 130 GB out of 149 GBof space left
250 GB HDD - Will give you 205 GB of place to use out of 232GB available

Western Digital Scorpio 250GB 2.5 Inch SATA Hard Drive - Page 6 of 7 - Big Bruin

80GB 5400RPM

Fujitsu MHV2080BH 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Fujitsu MHW2080BH 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - Retail
Western Digital Scorpio WD800BEVS 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
HITACHI Travelstar 5K100 HTS541080G9SA00 (0A26924) 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
SAMSUNG FlashON HM08HHI 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
SAMSUNG Spinpoint M Series HM080JI 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
HITACHI Travelstar 5K120 HTS541280H9SA00 (0A50158) 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM

80GB 7200RPM

HITACHI Travelstar 7K100 HTS721080G9SA00 (0A25026) 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Seagate Momentus 7200.1 ST980825AS 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM

100GB 5400RPM

Fujitsu MHW2100BH 100GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Seagate Momentus 5400.2 ST9100824AS 100GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM

100GB 7200RPM

Seagate Momentus 7200.1 ST910021AS 100GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM

120GB 5400RPM

TOSHIBA MK1234GSX 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Western Digital Scorpio WD1200BEVS 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Seagate Momentus 5400.2 ST9120821AS 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Seagate Momentus 5400.3 ST9120822AS 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
SAMSUNG Spinpoint M Series HM120JI 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM

160GB 5400RPM

SAMSUNG Spinpoint M Series HM160JI 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Western Digital Scorpio WD1600BEVS 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
HITACHI Travelstar 5K160 HTS541616J9SA00 (0A28844) 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Seagate Momentus 5400.3 ST9160821AS 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Fujitsu MHW2160BH 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - Retail

200GB 4200RPM

TOSHIBA MK2035GSS 200GB 4200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
HITACHI Travelstar 7K200 HTS722020K9SA00 (0A50940) 200GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM

250GB 5400RPM

SAMSUNG Spinpoint M Series HM250JI 250GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM
Western Digital Scorpio WD2500BEVS 250GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM

5400 Vs 7200 rpm drives

These temps were the highest temps noted w/ room temp of 78.

5400rpm - 111 degrees
7200rpm - 116 degrees

GT-HD
5400rpm - 1:42.636
7200rpm - 1:32.993
Almost 10 seconds off the install time. About 10% increase in speed.

Jericho demo
5400rpm - 2:08.629
7200rpm - 1:58.685
Again, about 10 seconds off install time. And about 8% increase in speed.

Tony Hawk demo
5400rpm - 4:11.184
7200rpm - 3:32.045
Almost 40 seconds off it's install time. Coming in at a nice 16% increase in speed.

DiRT demo
5400rpm - 1:29.289
7200rpm - 1:25.385
This one had 4 seconds shaved off. Not as good, but still about 5% increase in speed.

Notices

The hard disk is a sensitive piece of equipment and should be handled with care at all times. To help prevent software or data loss or corruption, or damage to the hard disk, carefully follow the precautions listed below:

-Do not drop the system or hard disk, or subject to physical shock or vibration.
-Do not allow liquid or small particles to get into the system or hard disk.
-Do not touch the connectors or insert foreign objects into the connectors.
-Do not place the system or hard disk close to magnetic fields such as those produced by magnets or loudspeakers. Also, do not place devices that may be sensitive to magnetic forces (such as a wrist watch or a magnetic card) near the hard disk.
-Do not put heavy objects on the hard disk.
-When handling the hard disk hold it only by the edges or metal frame.
-The hard disk is sensitive to static electricity. Ensure that proper handling methods are used when installing the hard disk.
-Store in a cool, dry location.

-=AL!EN=- · 29-06-2008

Yeah I did this with my 40 GB PS3 bought 3 months ago and the drive didnt look exactly like it does in those pictures, but it was just as easy as this if not easier.

Rip out the drive, whack in the new one and then the PS3 OS does most of the formatting and setting up of the new drive for you. Only problem I had was that my internal memory was running firmware 2.36 and the New HDD didnt have the update on it. So I would reccommend downloading the update to a flash drive before swapping your drives over. Apparently doing a backup doesn't archive the update.
Other than that it is easy as pie.

**pod0087** · 29-06-2008

At least source the article :\

kiz · 29-06-2008

another forum that didnt source it either? :\

protocaL · 11-07-2008

thanks for that mate

29-06-2008	#1 (permalink)
kiz Honorary Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: #ZYM Age: 20 Posts: 1,314 Rep Power: 4	Upgrading HDD Tutorial. I didnt write this, although i hope it helps anyone planning on upgrading their PS3 to a bigger drive. WARNING: Sony will not be held liable for any damage or loss of data when changing your HDD Welcome to the Unofficial PS3 Hard Drive Upgrade Thread I am putting this thread together because it would seem that there seems to be a lot of questions about replacing internal hard drives and trying to use external hard drives to back things up. This thread will continuously change when more information surfaces. This thread is a combination of information gathered from all over the web in one place. Important Questions Q: Does replacing your PS3 void your warranty? A: Simple answer is NO. But if you try to modify or take it apart it then this could void your warranty Q: Will I need to keep the old 60GB internal Hard Drive? A: Yes you will need to keep the old one in case you have to send in your PS3 for Service and you will need to put the 60GB back into the PS3 Q: Do I need to be careful with the screws? A: This is probably the hardest bit of the whole process - trying not to strip the screws. From what I have read and watched it would seem if you get the correct size screwdrvier and apply some pressure when you are unscrewing them then it should come out fine with out stripping them HINTS Before we start anything I must stress that you have your DATA backup, espically your game data so that you can transfer it. The Device has to be formated in FAT32 WHAT YOU WILL NEED 1 NOTEBOOK 2.5 INCH HDD SATA ANY SIZE (We recommend staying with the same RPM as the PS3’s original HDD, 5400RPM. You can upgrade to 7200RPM, of course, but we cannot promise that it will not have ill-effects on your machine.) 1 MINI PHILLIPS HEAD SCREWDRIVER 1 MINI FLATHEAD SCREWDRIVER 1 SOLID PLACE TO WORK 1 EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE or USB (FORMATED TO FAT32) GOOD VIDEO RESOURCE YouTube - Swap out your Hard Drive in your PS3 FIRST STEP- BACK UP 1. There are 2 ways to back up your data. Simple or Comprehensive Simple - GO to saved data utility under GAMES and press triangle and then select copy from the opitions and then select the destination - Use the same for Music and Photos,etc - However as Far as I know you can not save the actual game down this way eg PSN downloads Comprehensive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJDYgQtkk5A - Go to settings - Select system settings - Back up utility - Back up and then select the Destination. The device has to be formated in FAT32 to be recognised by the PS3. This way everything gets backed up including the PSN downloads ( I am not sure of things that are protected though eg WarHawk). http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en...kuputility.html STEP 2 - Removing the hard disk Before I start this section and section 3 I would like to say that this is the work of ifmracin of the US playstation forums. He has been helping people on the USA forum out with many questions. My thanks goes out to him for creating the thread on the US playstation forums. Anyways 1. Touch the power button on the system front for at least two seconds.The power indicator will turn solid red and the system will enter standby mode. 2. Turn off the system using the main power switch on the system rear. 3. Unplug the AC power cord and detach the other cables from the system. 4. Remove the HDD bay cover on the system's left side. Use the space at the right edge of the HDD bay cover to pull it out from the system.If the cover is difficult to remove, gently insert asmall screwdriver in the space and pry the cover off. Be careful not to damage the system or the cover when using a screwdriver. 5. Free the hard disk from the system. This had 4 steps i) Remove the blue screw with a crosshead screwdriver. ii) Raise the metal handle iii) Slide the hard disk to the right iv) Use the metal handle to pull the hard disk out from the system. STEP 3 - Replacing the Hard Disk YouTube - PS3 HDD 1. Use a crosshead screwdriver to remove the screws (4 places). IMPORTANT: These screws are very tight, be sure to find a screwdriver that fits very well, and take your time. 2. Remove the hard disk from the metal frame. Lift one end and slide the hard disk out to remove 3. Place the replacement hard disk on the PS3™ system hard disk's metal frame, and then attach using the screws (4 places). IMPORTANT : Do not overtighten the screws. 4. Install the hard disk in the system. Fully insert the hard disk in the HDD bay, and then slide it to the left. Attach the blue screw to lock the hard disk in place. Refer to the instructions for "Removing the hard disk" in reverse order when installing. 5. Reattach the HDD bay cover. 6. Turn on the PS3™ system. Follow the on-screen instructions to perform initial setup. STEP 4 - Restoring the back up DATA Simple Restore ( if you did simple backup) Just copy all the information back to where you copied it from Comprehensive Restore (if you did Comprehensive Backup) 1. Once the PS3 has formatted your new HDD go to settings 2. Select System settings 3. Backup utility 4. Restore Replacement hard disks You can use hard disks of the following types with the PS3™ system: Size 2.5 inch (internal type)1 Interface format Serial ATA2 1 Proper operation is not guaranteed for all models. 2 Parallel ATA is not supported. 2.5" form (generally refered to as a notebook drive) Serial ATA interface, also shown as SATA 9.5mm Height IMPORTANT: It is not recommended to sell or get rid of your factory hard drive. If you ever need to send it to Sony for repair, you are going to want to put the origional drive back in prior to sending it in.A good use for it is to get an external USB enclosure and convert it into a portable USB hard drive. VIDEO RESOURCES YouTube - Gamehelper: PS3 HDD Replacement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJDYgQtkk5A YouTube - PS3 Backup and Restore in action YouTube - PS3 Hard Drive Upgrade YouTube - Swap out your Hard Drive in your PS3 (GOOD Resource) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAM0DN4k7L4 (ALSO good) YouTube - A Simple Guide On How To Upgrade Your Ps3's HDD RESOURCES YouTube - PS3 Hard Drive Upgrade http://www.cnet.com.au/games/ps3/0,2390357...39282375,00.htm http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstatio...thread.id=32840 Press Start: How to Upgrade Your PlayStation 3 Hard Drive - Features at GameSpot Drives that Work IMPORTANT 160GB HDD - Will give you appromatiley 130 GB out of 149 GBof space left 250 GB HDD - Will give you 205 GB of place to use out of 232GB available Western Digital Scorpio 250GB 2.5 Inch SATA Hard Drive - Page 6 of 7 - Big Bruin 80GB 5400RPM Fujitsu MHV2080BH 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Fujitsu MHW2080BH 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - Retail Western Digital Scorpio WD800BEVS 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM HITACHI Travelstar 5K100 HTS541080G9SA00 (0A26924) 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM SAMSUNG FlashON HM08HHI 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM SAMSUNG Spinpoint M Series HM080JI 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM HITACHI Travelstar 5K120 HTS541280H9SA00 (0A50158) 80GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM 80GB 7200RPM HITACHI Travelstar 7K100 HTS721080G9SA00 (0A25026) 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Seagate Momentus 7200.1 ST980825AS 80GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM 100GB 5400RPM Fujitsu MHW2100BH 100GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Seagate Momentus 5400.2 ST9100824AS 100GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM 100GB 7200RPM Seagate Momentus 7200.1 ST910021AS 100GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM 120GB 5400RPM TOSHIBA MK1234GSX 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Western Digital Scorpio WD1200BEVS 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Seagate Momentus 5400.2 ST9120821AS 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Seagate Momentus 5400.3 ST9120822AS 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM SAMSUNG Spinpoint M Series HM120JI 120GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM 160GB 5400RPM SAMSUNG Spinpoint M Series HM160JI 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Western Digital Scorpio WD1600BEVS 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM HITACHI Travelstar 5K160 HTS541616J9SA00 (0A28844) 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Seagate Momentus 5400.3 ST9160821AS 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Fujitsu MHW2160BH 160GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - Retail 200GB 4200RPM TOSHIBA MK2035GSS 200GB 4200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM HITACHI Travelstar 7K200 HTS722020K9SA00 (0A50940) 200GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM 250GB 5400RPM SAMSUNG Spinpoint M Series HM250JI 250GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM Western Digital Scorpio WD2500BEVS 250GB 5400 RPM Serial ATA150 Notebook Hard Drive - OEM 5400 Vs 7200 rpm drives These temps were the highest temps noted w/ room temp of 78. 5400rpm - 111 degrees 7200rpm - 116 degrees GT-HD 5400rpm - 1:42.636 7200rpm - 1:32.993 Almost 10 seconds off the install time. About 10% increase in speed. Jericho demo 5400rpm - 2:08.629 7200rpm - 1:58.685 Again, about 10 seconds off install time. And about 8% increase in speed. Tony Hawk demo 5400rpm - 4:11.184 7200rpm - 3:32.045 Almost 40 seconds off it's install time. Coming in at a nice 16% increase in speed. DiRT demo 5400rpm - 1:29.289 7200rpm - 1:25.385 This one had 4 seconds shaved off. Not as good, but still about 5% increase in speed. Notices The hard disk is a sensitive piece of equipment and should be handled with care at all times. To help prevent software or data loss or corruption, or damage to the hard disk, carefully follow the precautions listed below: -Do not drop the system or hard disk, or subject to physical shock or vibration. -Do not allow liquid or small particles to get into the system or hard disk. -Do not touch the connectors or insert foreign objects into the connectors. -Do not place the system or hard disk close to magnetic fields such as those produced by magnets or loudspeakers. Also, do not place devices that may be sensitive to magnetic forces (such as a wrist watch or a magnetic card) near the hard disk. -Do not put heavy objects on the hard disk. -When handling the hard disk hold it only by the edges or metal frame. -The hard disk is sensitive to static electricity. Ensure that proper handling methods are used when installing the hard disk. -Store in a cool, dry location. __________________ unique signature

29-06-2008	#2 (permalink)
-=AL!EN=- Participating Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canberra Age: 23 Posts: 477 Rep Power: 2	Yeah I did this with my 40 GB PS3 bought 3 months ago and the drive didnt look exactly like it does in those pictures, but it was just as easy as this if not easier. Rip out the drive, whack in the new one and then the PS3 OS does most of the formatting and setting up of the new drive for you. Only problem I had was that my internal memory was running firmware 2.36 and the New HDD didnt have the update on it. So I would reccommend downloading the update to a flash drive before swapping your drives over. Apparently doing a backup doesn't archive the update. Other than that it is easy as pie. __________________

29-06-2008	#3 (permalink)
pod0087 GotGames Head Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,492 Rep Power: 7	At least source the article :\ __________________ Naomi: We now know that when benzopyrene enters the body, it changes to benzopyrene diolepoxide and attaches to the receptors on the P53 gene, the gene which causes lung cancer. The BPDE attaches to the P53 gene in three specific locations and causes pre-cancerous changes to the lung tissue. Snake: You know a lot about science, but you don't know how good a cigarette tastes in the morning. Last edited by pod0087; 29-06-2008 at 06:23 PM..

29-06-2008	#4 (permalink)
kiz Honorary Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: #ZYM Age: 20 Posts: 1,314 Rep Power: 4	another forum that didnt source it either? :\ __________________ unique signature

11-07-2008	#5 (permalink)
protocaL Participating Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Victoria Posts: 203 Rep Power: 1	thanks for that mate