Just a few questions before the finals...

[Diresim]

Sorry if these have been discussed elsewhere but I just wanted some clarification on a few things...

1) Climbing on buildings and the like... is anything not allowed? I can't find anything on the official rules page. Ceena seemed to think it was fine as long as you don't use a teammate to do it, or something? What's the deal.

2) Once or twice whilst playing scrims I have noticed people on the opposing team using dead silence... Its probably just because they forgot to change their classes, but just wondering how the famous "no dead silence" rule will be enforced in the finals?

Thanks.

[Killa DropBear]

Sorry if these have been discussed elsewhere but I just wanted some clarification on a few things...

1) Climbing on buildings and the like... is anything not allowed? I can't find anything on the official rules page. Ceena seemed to think it was fine as long as you don't use a teammate to do it, or something? What's the deal.

2) Once or twice whilst playing scrims I have noticed people on the opposing team using dead silence... Its probably just because they forgot to change their classes, but just wondering how the famous "no dead silence" rule will be enforced in the finals?

Thanks.

1) I'm sure Ceena is right

2)Hard to say i guess if it comes up they will have to get the ref in the game to stand near the player accused and get the player to jump and run around.
But whos to say they won't have:
Carbine-
perk 1: Claymore
perk 2: Stopping power
perk 3: deadsilence,
then if they get sprung and they get the ref in they change to-
Carbine-
perk 1: Claymore
perk 2: Stopping power
perk 3: Extreme conditioning.
This is what will cause problems just want this to be taken into consideration.

[Gh0sT KIRBY]

I'll answer to the best of my knowledge.

1) Pretty much all building climbs are allowed. You are allowed on the roof in overgrown (and on wooden bridge tin roof etc). Theres a roof on crash you can climb on, by jumping across from the sandbags area. Personally I think that is the only building climb that should be prohibitted. I dont know any others that would stand out as giving an unfair positional advantage? If there are any you feel unbalance the game and should be banned, mention them in this thread.

2) All refs will likely be playing matches (which counters the reason dead silence was banned in the first place), so we will be partially depending on the honesty system. Starks is on call, so if you suspect someone on the other team is using it, invite him into the game to deal with the issue. If Starks observes him using a banned perk, or you record the gameplay and have proof of this cheating, it will be dealt with harshly and could result in the cheating player forfeiting the match for his team.

[Killa DropBear]

i know what your saying it just that even if you have it captured on a capture card how will you know if he crouched walked up behind you or crouch walked there? i know you can hear people running and even walking from a distance but i feel it may be hard to prove.

[shieldsy]

recording the games will most likely be the best way to catch someone using dead silence.
theres always the danger for them of the other team planting the bomb and then if you kill them off they are then spectating you.
i believe it should be a straight forfiet. give the warning before you start. surely in the finals everybody should know the rules!

[Gh0sT KIRBY]

You are assuming the worst of people here. I know a majority of the players in the finals, and I doubt anyone would intentionally try and cheat by using dead silence. For the matches towards the end of the tournament (rounds 4,5,6) Starks will be sitting in spectating the entire game.

[Diresim]

Unfortunately there will always be people who will do anything for an advantage, even cheat, and I think the way the dead silence rule is to be enforced is pretty pointless... As killa said people just change their classes if a ref comes in... and a capture card is not much use if you can't spectate your opponent and you just need to judge the noise made based on relatice position and ground surface. Pretty speculative... is there not any other way to enforce this rule? How was it planned to be enforced when introduced?

[Gh0sT KIRBY]

Unfortunately there will always be people who will do anything for an advantage, even cheat, and I think the way the dead silence rule is to be enforced is pretty pointless... As killa said people just change their classes if a ref comes in... and a capture card is not much use if you can't spectate your opponent and you just need to judge the noise made based on relatice position and ground surface. Pretty speculative... is there not any other way to enforce this rule? How was it planned to be enforced when introduced?

The argument for banning dead silence was that referees would spectate all games in the finals and enforce the rule. At the time it wasnt known that all matches in the finals would be played concurrently.


In any case the slight (if any) advantage you get by using dead silence is not worth the risk of getting a forfeit for your team. I personally feel that there are other perks that are equally as powerful as dead silence.
I know I will be recording every game Malice plays, and if I capture someone using dead silence they will be in trouble. Even if you were prepared to cheat, you would have to be an idiot to try using dead silence. The risk vs reward isnt worth it.

[Diresim]

In any case the slight (if any) advantage you get by using dead silence is not worth the risk of getting a forfeit for your team. I personally feel that there are other perks that are equally as powerful as dead silence.

"If any"???

You do realise its not that your opponent can't hear you, its that you can't hear yourself?

I know I will be recording every game Malice plays, and if I capture someone using dead silence they will be in trouble. Even if you were prepared to cheat, you would have to be an idiot to try using dead silence. The risk vs reward isnt worth it.

And how would you prove it when you're not actually spectating the invidual in question? You couldn't.

[Gh0sT KIRBY]

"If any"???
You do realise its not that your opponent can't hear you, its that you can't hear yourself?

Yes, but you are sacrificing whichever perk you would have selected instead. In many instances extreme conditioning, iron lungs or deep impact is equally or more effective, meaning dead silence would not give you an advantage. Why risk having your team forfeitted for no reason?

And how would you prove it when you're not actually spectating the invidual in question? You couldn't.

If you see them walking or sprinting at close range without sound. If your entire team is dead, and you are spectating the enemy team as they defuse the bomb.


Dont get me wrong, Its not ideal. I always wanted dead silence in the tournament as a perk. But I dont see the problem being as bad as you are making out.

[Diresim]

For some clans, things like extreme conditioning are vital as their strats typically revolve around nade spots. For others, other things are more important...

But regardless, it's not important how bad the problem is, its that the problem exists that worries me.

My issue is that effectively, I have no protection against a player using dead silence. None of the people on my team has a capture card, even if it could be useful in the way you suggest. Now I'm sure there's a fair chance there wouldn't be any issues anyway, but then, even if there were, would you know... if you did... would you ever really be able to prove anything regardless? That's my point here.

It's like introducing a hands in the back rule in the AFL, as was done last year, and then saying only the emergency umpire (who sits on the bench FYI those north of the border) is the one who can adjudicate on it.

[Tigerane]

There are some spots on maps where you can boost teammates onto walls etc, is this allowed?

[Diresim]

According to Star... I mean Kirby.... yes.

But you're not climbing on my back biattch!

[Grommz MOD]

1-In that case if its ok to boost other players up your saying i can jump on someones back in Ambush and get out the map ? Not that i do it its pointless but you see were im coming from.

I personally think that unless you cant get to the spot on your own then no its not allowed.


2- I dont see the point in Dead Silence 90% of the players playing in the finals know the game well enough and are skilled enough to not make noise anyways.

Only time i really ever used it is in death matches with a shotty lol

[AbA]

There are some spots on maps where you can boost teammates onto walls etc, is this allowed?

Yes.

[verdantloki]

ahhhh the dead silence and shotgun trick! dead silence for most teams would be pointless as the majority have some sort of run or particular nade spot that they need to get to as quick as possible, hence extreme cond. the team capt should be aware of what his team runs, perk wise, and the players themselves this far into the tournament should have some sort of honesty about them!

[Starks]

Sorry if these have been discussed elsewhere but I just wanted some clarification on a few things...

1) Climbing on buildings and the like... is anything not allowed? I can't find anything on the official rules page. Ceena seemed to think it was fine as long as you don't use a teammate to do it, or something? What's the deal.

No glitching, essentially. If you can legitimately get up on a roof without cheating then I do not see why it should be 'banned'. However, if a section you climb to prevents you from being seen and still allow you to shoot, or killed when shot at, then I class it as a glitch and classify it as a 'No no.'

Essentially, this will be dealt with on a case by case basis.

2) Once or twice whilst playing scrims I have noticed people on the opposing team using dead silence... Its probably just because they forgot to change their classes, but just wondering how the famous "no dead silence" rule will be enforced in the finals?

Thanks.

It will be enforced as it has been during the ladder rounds. If I have evidence or I visibly see the breach within a game, then you will automatically lose the round. If a second breach is made, you will automatically forfeit the match.

You are assuming the worst of people here. I know a majority of the players in the finals, and I doubt anyone would intentionally try and cheat by using dead silence. For the matches towards the end of the tournament (rounds 4,5,6) Starks will be sitting in spectating the entire game.

Kirbs is right. I do not try to think the worst of people. I'm a fairly positive and honest person (Which can work against me) and more often than not will tihnk the best of people. I know about 50 to 60% of the top 8 in either previous XBL experiences, met them on LAN's, or have developed a repore with them on the forums. As such, I would like to believe that these people, out of not just a respect for me but for the ladder, would not cheat.

This doesn't mean I won't sit in on games, as I feel my presence is needed, but I guess I hold a fair bit of respect for you people and would like to believe that you'll do the right thing by yourselves (and me) and not cheat.

I'd like to not be proven wrong on the last count.

[Tweaka]

MLC/[MLC] is not going to be using Dead Silence, but I do get a sense of Deja Vu' in this thread.

Been there, done that.

[Diresim]

No glitching, essentially. If you can legitimately get up on a roof without cheating then I do not see why it should be 'banned'. However, if a section you climb to prevents you from being seen and still allow you to shoot, or killed when shot at, then I class it as a glitch and classify it as a 'No no.'

Essentially, this will be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Okay, cheers for clearing that up...

[BakedPotatoLive]

If you see them walking or sprinting at close range without sound. If your entire team is dead, and you are spectating the enemy team as they defuse the bomb.

Well then they would realise this and only crouch-walk when the other team is dead. I just can't see how you plan on enforcing the rule accurately and consistently, without atleast 2 refs spectating each match, and even then it would be a struggle.

[Gh0sT KIRBY]

Okay so if you suspect a player on the other team is using dead silence, send a private message to Starks requesting the he join the game. He can then immediately hit the B button twice, and spectate the player in question before he has a chance to change class. Id be very surprised if anyone were going to try and use dead silence in the finals honestly.

[IxI Rufio IxI]

There are some spots on maps where you can boost teammates onto walls etc, is this allowed?

Yes.

No glitching, essentially. If you can legitimately get up on a roof without cheating then I do not see why it should be 'banned'. However, if a section you climb to prevents you from being seen and still allow you to shoot, or killed when shot at, then I class it as a glitch and classify it as a 'No no.'

i disagree entirely with you there aba, i dont think that jumping on teammates heads to get to a spot on the map should be allowed at all, to get up on a roof "without cheating" means u can jump up or pull yourself up on you own.

look at it this way, can everyone on the map get there, answer is NO, coz if your the last man on your team, you've got no one to boost you. very unfair if someone else got up there with a mates help earlier on. so according to the rules, id consider jumping on top of a team mate to get to somewhere you wouldn't be able to without that team mate, as cheating!

[Kramer]

Which maps in the finals can you jump on each others back to get too a spot anyway? yeah I know you probably wont want to let your secrets out....

[Th3 xSaintx]

Just so everyone is clear can we or can we not "Boost" a team mate????

Just won't to know for certain from you Starks!!!

[IxI Rufio IxI]

Which maps in the finals can you jump on each others back to get too a spot anyway? yeah I know you probably wont want to let your secrets out....

umm, yeah, yeah thats right, nowhere....

[shieldsy]

backlot with a boost you can get out of the map or on top the construction building.

[Tigerane]

Theres heaps of spots on different maps, obviously i'm not going to mention them

[FluenZa]

guys i wish you all could play on my Kmart T.V its like you all have dead silence as i cant hear sh*t!

so i personally have no problem as i have been a deaf soldier since the beggining.

ps. anyone wanna buy me a new t.v?

[xXx JipD xXx]

I call a definate HELL NO! to being allowed to get to areas with the help of team mates.

You can get ontop of the flowershop in strike and your practically invisable till u pop out to shoot and from there you have that whole side of that map to yourself and everyone is dead if they are not in doors and your visual into A is practically everything!

There are many spots of course but I'm using that as an example

[Ceena]

Lol wheres the flower shop?

[Gh0st JJ10]

flower shop iss a malice call
you wouldnt understand

[Th3 xSaintx]

We also call it that lol but have you heard of Highway Hotel?

[IxI Rufio IxI]

u heard of ducky's mums place??? not that it has anything to do with cod4

[Tigerane]

Plant shop imo

[Strangled duck]

Skeet Skeet Skeet

[Mab72]

There are some spots on maps where you can boost teammates onto walls etc, is this allowed?

no this is not allowed, this was discussed in an earlier post and banned

[Tweaka]

no this is not allowed, this was discussed in an earlier post and banned

Thats what I always thought - Go anywhere where you can get yourself, but not where you need help.

It's there in some thread before, I remember it from long ago cause we adjusted strat accordingly.

[xXx JipD xXx]

We had strat with boosting o.O....

meh...

I never use any of that crap because I wouldn't like it being used against me and it's an unfair advantage...like noob tubes!

[Starks]

'Boosting' as it's been called is not allowed.

I seem to recall this being settled months ago in the orignial CoD4 thread.

Anywhere you are meant to get on your own is fine. Assistance of any sort brings into question spots that could allow you to glitch.

[Killa DropBear]

Could you also add please that getting out of the map by yourself is banned because i have seen and know how to do it by yourself on one or two paticular maps.you can do it Without old school by yourself.